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| | | General Discussion:Dies Irae: Gosh, I like this tune! 284 Examples | 123 NEXTLAST | Last Post |
| | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-2:37 PM | | | By: | fmfan1(Member) | Over many years, I have compiled a list of film scores, classical works, game scores, etc. that contain (or supposedly contain) a quote of the famous Dies Irae tune. Much of this information has come from web sources, including several FSM discussions, but I like to personally verify any claim. I've discovered many of them by just having a movie or soundtrack playing in the background. I am simply fascinated by this tune, and I would hesitate to suggest that any other tune has been quoted more often by such a diverse group of composers in such a diverse number of ways. Please let me know of any additions to the list. If you can verify some of the ones that I am unsure about, please let me know the place in the movie or musical work where the Dies Irae quote appears. I’d be appreciative! ---yes--- Addinsell, Richard: The New Lot (British Army training film) Addison, John: Grace Quigley Ades, Thomas: Totentanz Alkan, Charles-Valentin: Trois morceaux dans le genre pathetique Alessandroni, Allessandro: Suor Omicidi (Killer Nun) Alessandroni, Allessandro: The Devil's Nightmare Alwyn, William: Burn, Witch, Burn (Night of the Eagle) Amano, Masamichi: Giant Robo Amano, Masamichi: Giant Robo 2 Andersen, Michael: Tower of London April, Michael: Dead by Daylight/Attack on Titan (video game) Ball, Eric: Resurgam Bathory: Album, "Blood Fire Death" (1988) - within 1st minute of album Baxter, Les: Cervantes: The Young Rebel from LaMancha Baxter, Les: Fall of the House of Usher Beck, Christophe: Buffy, The Vampire Slayer Berlioz, Hector: Symphonie Fantastique Beltrami, Marco: Knowing Bernstein, Elmer: Trial of Billy Jack Bernstein, Elmer: Scarlet Letter (rejected score) Bernstein, Elmer: The Field Bernstein, Elmer: Heavy Metal Bernstein, Elmer: Marie Ward Bernstein, Elmer: Last Man Standing Bernstein, Elmer: Gangs of New York (rejected score) Bernstein, Elmer: Zulu Dawn Bernstein, Elmer: Genocide Bernstein, Elmer: Airplane Bernstein, Elmer: Age of Innocence Blake, Howard: S.O.S. Titanic Bloch, Ernest: Suite Symphonique Bonis, Melanie: La Cathedrale Blessee, op. 107 Brahms, Johannes: Six Pieces for Piano, op. 118 #6 Broughton, Bruce: Cartoon Concerto Bruneau, Alfred: Requiem Burgon, Geoffrey: Requiem Burgon, Geoffrey: Martin Chuzzlewit Cardin, Matt: Daemonyx: Curse of the Daimon, "Road to Olduvai" (instrumental work) Carlos, Wendy: The Shining Carlos, Wendy: A Clockwork Orange Carpenter, John: The Fog Carpi, Fiorenzo: Un Bianco Vestito Pre Mariale Castelnuovo Tedesco, Mario: 24 Capricho de Goya (#12) Chadwick, George: Tam O’Shanter Charpentier, Marc-Antoine: Prose Des Morts Chattaway, Jay: Maniac Cop 2 Chihara, Paul: Family of Spies Clarke, Nigel and Michael Csanyi-Wills: The Rocket Post Cordell, Frank: Demon/God Told Me To Crumb, George: Black Angels Dallapiccola, Luigi: Canti di prigionia Daugherty, Michael: Metropolis Symphony/Red Cape Tango Daugherty, Michael: Dead Elvis Davies, Peter Maxwell: The Devils (subtle in "Titles", bits in "Execution") Davis, Don: Matrix Revolutions de Pablo, Luis: El Sonido de la Muerte/Sound of Horror (a joke of sorts on the radio) de Masi, Francesco: Per Un Pugno Nell'Occhio Debney, John: End of Days Debney, John: I Know What You Did Last Summer Delerue, Georges: Black Robe Djawadi, Ramin: Westworld, season 3, not just the Shining reference, but other places as well Dohnanyi, Erno: Rhapsodie for Piano, op. 11 #4 Doyle, Patrick: Needful Things Elfman, Danny: The Nightmare Before Christmas Elfman, Danny: Batman Returns Emerson-Johnson, Jared: Sam & Max…Beyond Time and Space (VG) Enid, The: In the Region of the Summer Stars, "Judgement Day" (instrumental) Ferrio, Gianni: E divenne il piu spietato bandito del sud Frankel, Benjamin: The Prisoner Fried, Gerald: Return of Dracula Fried, Gerald: Cruise into Terror (TV)(variation of Dies in main title) Friedhofer, Hugo: Between Heaven and Hell Gamely, Douglas: Vault of Horror Garcia Morcillo, Fernando: The Witches' Mountain (El Monte de las Brujas) Getz, Irving: The Creature Walks Among Us Giacchino, Michael: Rogue One Gibney, David: Superstition Glasgow, Scott: LO Glazanov, Alexander: From the Middle Ages Godfrey, Robert John: song "Judgement Day" Gold, Ernest: The Screaming Skull Goldenthal, Elliot: Demolition Man Goldsmith, Jerry: Gremlins 2 Goldsmith, Jerry: Poltergeist Goldsmith, Jerry: Mephisto Waltz Goldsmith, Jerry: Looney Tunes: Back in Action Goldsmith, Jerry: The Shadow Goldsmith, Jerry: The Other Goldsmith, Joel: Maniac Cop 3 Gordon, Christopher: When Good Ghouls Go Bad Gori, Coriolano: La Lupa Mannara Gori, Lallo: Black Jack Gould, Morton: Dance Variations Gregson-Williams, Harry: Sinbad Gross, Charles: Murders in the Rue Morgue Guinjoan, Joan: Passim trio Harnell, Joe: Curse of Dracula Harris, Albert: Bacchanale Haydn, Joseph: Symphony #103 “Drumroll” Hayman, Richard: Voodoo! (Midnight Ritual track) Herrmann, Bernard: Jason and the Argonauts Herrmann, Bernard: Garden of Evil Herrmann, Bernard: Obsession Herrmann, Bernard: Alfred Hitchcock Hour, "The Jar" Hirschfelder, David: Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole Holmes, Robert, etc.: Gabriel Knight 3 (VG) Honegger, Arthur: La Danse de Morts Horner, James: Where the River Runs Black Huber, Hans: Symphony #3 Huppertz, Gottfried: Metropolis Hyldgaard, Soren: Isle of Darkness Ibert, Jacques: Golgotha Ishii, Kan: Gorath Jablonsky, Steve: D-Wars (VG) Jarre, Maurice: Top Secret! Jarre, Maurice: Vendredi ou la Vie Sauvage Jo, Yeong-Wook: The Spy Gone North Jones, Trevor: Hideaway Kamen, Michael: 101 Dalmations Kamen, Michael: Lethal Weapon 3 Karpman, Laura: Everquest II (VG) Kastalsky, Alexander: Requiem for Fallen Brothers Kay, Hershey: Cakewalk Ballet (after Gottschalk) Khatchaturian, Aram: Symphony #2 Kiner, Kevin: Clone Wars (TV) in "The Clones" track King, Rob: Heroes of Might and Magic V (VG) Lagace, Ken: F-19 Stealth Fighter (VG) Land, Michael, Bajakian, Clint, etc.: Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis (VG) Larson, Jonathan: Rent Lenz, Jack: Goosebumps (TV): The Girl Who Cried Monster, A Night in Terror Tower, others? Lewis, Michael J.: The Medusa Touch Ligeti, Gyorgy: Le Grande Macabre Liszt, Franz: Totentanz LoDuca, Joseph: Chucky (TV show) Loeffler, Charles Martin: Divertissement in a-minor Lopez, Robert and Kristen: Frozen: The Musical ("Monster") Lopez, Robert and Kristen: Frozen II; song "Into the Unknown" Lorenc, Michal: Prowokator Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th V Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th VI Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th VII: The New Blood Manfredini, Harry: Friday the 13th: The Game Marianelli, Dario: A Long Way Down Martinu, Bohuslav: Symphony #1 Matacic, Lovro von: Confrontation Symphony Mayuzumi, Toshiro: The Bible...The Beginning McConnell, Peter: Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft (VG) McCreary, Bear: Agents of SHIELD - one of the later 1st season episodes McCreary, Bear: Eli McDermott, Joe: Zombies Ate My Neighbors (VG) Medtner, Nikolai: Piano Quintet Melvins, The: Nude with Boots album, in "Dies Iraea" Menken, Alan: Hunchback of Notre Dame Messager, Andre: Veronique Morgan Smith, Andrew: Bunker Morcillo, Fernando Garcia: The Howl of the Devil (1987) Morricone, Ennio: Vamos a Matar, Companeros (La Loro Patria #3) Morricone, Ennio: I Malamondo Morricone, Ennio: The Mission Morricone, Ennio: Il Sorriso Del Grande Tentatore Morricone, Ennio: Escalation Morricone, Ennio: Padre Pio Morricone, Ennio: Guns for San Sebastian Morricone, Ennio: I Pugni in Tasca Morricone, Ennio: Commandamenti per un gangster Morricone, Ennio: Addio Fratello Crudele (in frate bonaventura and in fondo al pozzo) Morricone, Ennio: Il Gatto Morricone, Ennio: Amanti D'Oltre Tomba (Nightmare Castle) Morricone, Ennio: Galileo Morricone, Ennio: Maddalena Morricone, Ennio: La Migliore Offerta (The Best Offer) Morricone, Ennio: El Greco (it's the actual chant) Morricone, Ennio: Noi Lazzaroni Morricone, Ennio: Giordano Bruno Myaskovsky, Nicolai: Symphony #6 Myaskovsky, Nicolai: Piano Sonata #2 Myers, Stanley: Witches Myers, Stanley: The Zero Boys (with Hans Zimmer) Nascimbene, Mario: Commandos Newman, David: The Runestone Newman, Lionel: Compulsion (character hums it after 1:03:20) Newton-Howard, James: The Sixth Sense (The Lonely Boy) Newton Brothers: Doctor Sleep Nicolai, Bruno: Una Strana Voglia D'Amare Nordgren, Erik: The Seventh Seal North, Alex: Agony and the Ecstasy Novak, Vitezslav: “May” Symphony Orlandi, Nora: Lo Strano Vizio Della Signora Wardh Peaslee, Richard: The Garden of Earthly Delights (ballet) Penhorwood, Edwin: An American Requiem Pes, Carlo: Professionisti per un massacro Pipes, Douglas: Krampus Poledouris, Basil: Conan the Barbarian Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Piano Concerto #4, 3rd mvt. Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Isle of Dead Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #1 Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #2 Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphony #3 Rachmaninoff, Sergei: The Bells Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Symphonic Dances Rachmaninoff, Sergei: Piano Sonata #1, 3rd mvt. Rabin, Trevor: Armageddon Reichelt, David: Tatort "Dreams" Respighi, Ottorino: Brazilian Sketches Robinson, Harry: Lust for a Vampire Romero, Paul: Heroes of Might and Magic III (VG) Romitelli, Sante Maria: The Seducers (Top Sensation) Romitelli, Sante Maria: Spara, Gringo, Spara (probably, recurring theme is variation) Rosenman, Leonard: The Car Rosenthal, Laurence: Beckett Rustichelli, Carlo: Ro.Go.Pa.G. (La Ricotta segment) Rozsa, Miklos: El Cid Rozsa, Miklos: Diane Rozsa, Miklos: Young Bess Rozsa, Miklos: Fantasy on Themes of Young Bess Rubin, Marcel: Symphony #4 ("Dies Irae") Saint-Saens, Camille: Danse Macabre Saint-Saens, Camille: Requiem Savina, Carlo: L'Araucana - Massacro Dei Dei Savina, Carlo: I Diabolici Convegni Savina, Carlo: L'uomo Che Ride Schierbeck, Poul: Vredens Dag/Day of Wrath (1943) Schikele, Peter: Brass Calendar Schikele, Peter: The Short-Tempered Clavier (mvt. viii) Schikele, Peter: Unbegun Symphony Schnittke, Alfred: Agonia Schnittke, Alfred: Symphony #1 (mvt. 4) Schwartz, David: The Good Place, Season 1, Episode 11 Schyman, Garry: Dante’s Inferno (VG) Scott, John: Witchcraft Scott, John: The Scarlet Tunic Scott, John: Webs and Other Wonders Sculthorpe, Peter: Memento Mori Sgambati, Giovanni: Messa da requiem Shire, David: The Big Bus Shostakovich, Dmitri: Hamlet Shostakovich, Dmitri: Aphorisms, No. 7, Danse Macabre Snipes, Jonathan and Hutson, William: Room 237 (Dies Irae) Sondheim, Stephen: Sweeney Todd Sorabji, Kaikhosru: Sequentia Cyclica Stravinsky, Igor: Octet for Wind Instruments Stein, Herman: Girls in the Night Sukman, Harry: Salem’s Lot Tanaka, Kohei: Gravity Rush 2 (VG) Tchaikovsky, Peter: Manfred Symphony Tchaikovsky, Peter: Orchestral Suite #3 Ticheli, Frank: Vesuvius Tiomkin, Dimitri: It’s a Wonderful Life Tiomkin, Dimitri: The Unforgiven (between 1 hour and 1 hour, 1 minute) Tiomkin, Dimitri: Angel on my Shoulder Tiomkin, Dmitri: I Confess Tiomkin, Dmitri: Search for Paradise Tubin, Eduard: Symphony #3 Tyler, Brian: Iron Man 3 Uematsu, Nobuo: Final Fantasy IX (VG) unknown: Zombies Ate My Neighbors (VG) unknown: Gauntlet Legends (VG) unknown: Jabberwocky van Parys, Georges: Le Mouton a Cinq Pattes Vaughan Williams, Ralph: 5 Tudor Portraits Velazquez, Fernando: Crimson Peak Waxman, Franz: Prince Valiant Whitaker, David: Vampire Circus Whitaker, David: The Sword and the Sorcerer Williams, John: Home Alone (4 notes as kids look at Old Man Marley) Williams, John: Star Wars Williams, John: Attack of the Clones Williams, John: War of the Worlds Williams, John: Jurassic Park Williams, John: Amistad Young, Christopher: Murder in the First Young, Christopher: The Piper Ysaye, Eugene: Sonata #2 for Solo Violin Zanelli, Geoff: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales Zimmer, Hans: The Peacemaker Zimmer, Hans: The Road to El Dorado Zimmer, Hans: Crimson Tide Zimmer, Hans: The Lion King Zimmer, Hans: Mission Impossible 2 Zimmer, Hans: Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides Zimmer, Hans: The Rock; "Rock House Jail" Zimmer, Hans: The Ring Zimmer, Hans: (see Stanley Myers) Zimmermann, Bernd: Musique pour les soupers du roi ubu ---Maybe (I hear the reference, but is it just coincidental or just “in the style of”???)--- Bernard, James: Dracula has Risen from the Grave (main/end titles) have 1st 5 notes Bernstein, Elmer: The Black Caulderon - in bells on Special Pig?, "Decision"?, "Apology"? Bernstein, Elmer: Fear Strikes Out (main title seems to vary theme to Dies Irae shape) Chattaway, Jay: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, "Ties of Blood and Water" Dragon, Carmen: Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956), similar shape about 4 times during film Elfman, Danny: Sleepy Hallow Elfman, Danny: Mars Attacks! Elgar, Edward: The Wand of Youth Fenton, George: Groundhog Day Furst, Nathan: Bionicle 2: Legends of Metru Nui Gamely, Douglas: Tales from the Crypt (36:30 and 47:30 similar but not exact) Giacchino, Michael: Lost, Kate's Theme, as in Season 1, Episode 22 "Born to Run" Goldsmith, Jerry: Basic Instinct Goldsmith, Jerry: The Omen (4 notes are inverted in title) Goldsmith, Jerry: Alien, "The Landing" Grantham, Donald: Baron Cimetiere’s Mambo Harrison, John: Creepshow Herrmann, Bernard: Citizen Kane Herrmann, Bernard: Sisters Horner, James: The Land Before Time Mahler, Gustav: Das Klagende Lied Mahler, Gustav: Symphony #2 McCreary, Bear: 10 Cloverfield Lane McCreary, Bear: Colossal Morricone, Ennio: Allonsanfan (tune in Te Deum and others is Dies like) Morricone, Ennio: Il Giardino delle delizie - main theme has the first 4 notes blaring out Mussorgsky, Modest: St. Johns Night on Bald Mountain Mussorgsky, Modest: Songs and Dances of Death Nascimbene, Mario: The Vikings Navarrete, Javier: Inkheart Newman, Thomas: Wall-E, "The Spaceship" Rachmainoff, Sergei: With Rachmaninoff, you can almost assume that anything with the first 4 notes or the shape of the first phrase is a deliberate reference. The following, though, are more subtle: Prince Rostislav, Moment Musical op. 16 #3, Second Suite for Two Pianos, op. 17, Prelude in e minor op. 32 #4, Etude Tableau op. 33 #1, Etude Tableau op. 33 #4, Etude Tableau in a minor op. 39 #2, In the Garden at Night op. 38 #1 Saint-Saens, Camille: Symphony #3 (a similar motif in agitato form) Shostakovich, Dmitri: String Quartet #8 Shostakovich, Dmitri: Symphony #14 (4 notes in opening) Silvestri, Alan: Avengers: Infinity War Smith, Paul: “Trick of Treat” cartoon short Strauss, Richard: Till Eulenspiegel (first 4 notes here and there may work story-wise) Van Cleave: Robinson Cruso on Mars "The Attack/Along the Ledge" (similar shape, though intervals are wrong and phrase is too long) van Parys, Georges: Les Diaboliques Walker, Shirley: Batman: Mask of the Phantasm ("Birth of Batman" and "Phantasm/Joker fight" has 4 notes) Whitaker, David: Dr. Jeckyl and Sister Hyde Williams, John: Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind Williams, John: Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets Williams, John: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Williams, John: Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls Williams, John: Jaws (within the famous shark motif) Zimmer, Hans: Bird on a Wire ---Probably Not/Definitely Not (I don't think so, but it has been mentioned)--- Barry, John: Midnight Cowboy Barry, John: Lion in Winter Carpenter, John and Howarth, Alan: Big Trouble in Little China Debney, John: Bruce Almighty (Seventh at Seven) - 4 notes, but probably not Djawadi, Ramin: Game of Thrones, Season 5 Episode 1 Gershwin, George: Rhapsody in Blue Gounod, Charles: Faust (someone mentioned Act 4, but I don't hear it) Goldsmith, Jerry: Sleeping with the Enemy - it's Berlioz source music Herrmann, Bernard: 7th Voyage of Sinbad Holst, Gustav: The Planets (Saturn) Huber, Hans: Symphony #2 (I don't hear it) Jackman, Henry: Wreck-It-Ralph Jarre, Maurice: The Collector (I don't hear it on the original album) Jethro Tull: Elegy from Stormwatch Kawasaki, Yasuhiro: Pandora’s Tower (VG) - uses Verdi's Dies Irae Ligeti, Gyorgy: Requiem Monty Python: The Holy Grail ("Hand Grenade of Antioch" has a different chant) Morricone, Ennio: Le trio infernal (Dies Irae is sung, but not same tune) Newman, David: Duplex (not on soundtrack; film uses Mozart's Dies Irae) Ottman, John: X-Men 2 (wrong Dies Irae) Prokofiev, Sergei: Alexander Nevsky Rachmaninoff, Sergei: The Rock Saint-Saens, Camille: Organ Variations (Is there such a work?) Schubert, Franz: Death and the Maiden (lied) Searle, Humphrey: The Haunting (I don't hear it.) Shore, Howard: Fellowship of the Rings Stravinsky, Igor: Rite of Spring (The Sacrifice Intro and Mystic Circles is similar, coincidental?) unknown: Shriek of the Mutilated (not counting it - there is no original score, just needle-drops Berlioz) Young, Christopher: Bless This Child (has a track called "Dies Irae," but I don't hear the "famous" tune) ---Unverified Chion, Michel: On the Roots' album And Then You Shoot Your Cousin, "Dies Irae" de Pablo, Luis: El Sonido de la Muerte/Sound of Horror (being researched) Drake, Christopher: Yoga Hosers Hooper, Nellee: Romeo & Juliet (DiCaprio film) Fox, Jim: Dracula's Widow (need to verify with a recording - if available) Friedhofer, Hugo, Bridge of Vengeance, "The Foundry No. II" Galas, Diamanda: Masque of the Red Death Goldenthal, Elliot: Alien 3 Magne, Michael: Les Miserables (being researched) Morricone, Ennio: Rampage (being researched) Morricone, Ennio: Tre Nel 1000 Silvestri, Alan: Predator van Parys, Georges: Un Cheveu Sur La Soupe | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-5:50 PM | | | By: | Mike West(Member) | Very interesting. About musical quotes it is sometimes tricky, because the more "unremarkable" the original in terms of musical grammar the more exactly and decidedly the quote has to be to really reference. With the dies irae chant we have a melody which uses a constellations of notes which is a something appearing all the time because of the design of musical grammar in western music. The intervalls (thirds and seconds) are used in a sequence which exists actually (not audible) more or less in almost every minor mode and similar to minor mode modal keys compositions. Because they are part of a chord-sequence. And we have no rhythm, in gregorian chant we know something about rhythms, but they were not written as today in the past at first, everybody singing them knew by tradition how the chant was to be performed. So with all the same values of length there is no real profile of the melody setting it apart. However, if it is used as melodic or thematic material, the composer has to design the set-up to make that clear and not just have notes of some chords which are there anyway. And if someone quotes it, the same. So, I am very sure that there is no Dies Irae quote in Star Wars and also not in Jurassic Park. Which part of it do you mean? I know the scores quite well and I am 99 percent sure there is no deliberate quote. Maybe it is in Close Encounters, I always thought that there is. It would make sense to reference it, and Williams would know to come so close to something. That Schwarzenegger movie scored by Debney called End of Days has it I think quite prominently, Debney uses only the first four notes, but because of the subject of the film and having a boy soprano this compositional set-up is certainly something you would call a real quote. I think it is not in Iron Man 3, this is certainly by accicent the same sequence of notes, which is not a quote. I am quite sure it is not in Mahler 2#. I conducted that piece a couple of times, I don't remember. Which movement is it supposed to appear in? There is another M. Daughterty which quotes it, but I'd have to check my CDs to find out. It is not in Home alone, this happens to be "carol of the bells" which has the same notes but different rhythms, this is a russian christmas melody, not the Dies irae. AND: you don't list maybe the most important quote of it in music history as the others already mentioned: Hector Berlioz: Symphony Fantastique the last movement is a delirious execution scene. that has a quote of it which is very much discussed about in musicology, because it is one of the first real Programmmusik's , quoting the sphere of the dies irae I am sure there are like 50 example in the list which do not have that at all, which is also not a question of style. It is too basal in western music. The first phrase of the Dies is 8 notes, the last one comes twice. | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-6:11 PM | | | By: | fmfan1(Member) | In some cases, it is tough to tell if a quote is an actual Dies Irae reference, given, as was mentioned, the simple nature of the theme. Certainly, the length of the quote and the context play a role. I listened to the "End of Days" theme on youtube just now. Very interesting. The 4 notes - given even just the title of the movie - would seem to be a possible reference. Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score! I call "Star Wars" a maybe. When Luke sees the burning bodies of his uncle and aunt and the 4 notes are heard in repetition, there might have been a purposeful allusion to the Dies Irae. Or maybe not. I suppose Williams could tell us! I would agree that the Mahler Symphony #2 is a probable "no". I listened to it a few weeks ago; there's a theme that first appears in the 1st movement and later returns in the 5th. It has a similar shape to the Dies Irae, perhaps, but not enough similarity to call it a reference. I don't hear it in "Home Alone" at all, but someone, somewhere claimed it was there. I fixed the missing Berlioz. It's in my database, but when I couldn't cut and paste from the database, I ended up having to type the list over into a Word document before copying and pasting to the FSM board. It got lost in translation! | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-6:21 PM | | | By: | Mike West(Member) | In some cases, it is tough to tell if a quote is an actual Dies Irae reference, given, as was mentioned, the simple nature of the theme. Certainly, the length of the quote and the context play a role. I listened to the "End of Days" theme on youtube just now. Very interesting. The 4 notes - given even just the title of the movie - would seem to be a possible reference. Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score! I call "Star Wars" a maybe. When Luke sees the burning bodies of his uncle and aunt and the 4 notes are heard in repetition, there might have been a purposeful allusion to the Dies Irae. Or maybe not. I suppose Williams could tell us! interesting thinking, from an older musicians point of view, being very familiar with the idea and tradition of quoting in compositions , I am sure Debney deliberately quoted the Dies Irae. It makes perfect sense. And from that point of view I'd say there is definetely no Dies Irae quote in Star Wars. Look at the texts here. How often do phrases appear like "in my opinion", "from my point of view", or also like "I like the", "there is a lot". The exact number of identical syllables in the same order. Nobody would call that a quote or style. It is immanent in english language and communication. The minor/major-key and modal-key system in our customs of linear intervalls leads to that Dies Irae sequence by accident. | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-6:33 PM | | | By: | Mike West(Member) | Was it intentional, or was Debney just going for that Dies Irae "sound" (sort of like how composers create the Carmina Burana sound without actually quoting it)? I'm interested in hearing more from this score! ! actually it is not really possible to just quote the sound or the aura of the Dies Irae. that would be just the sound or the aura of medieval plain chant, or gregorian chant in a certain key. to have the dies irae allusion it has to be the same sequence of intervalls. and some features which make it clear this is meant as a quote, because it is not a quote when it is not intented to be. this is certainly not necessarily true with other aspects of composing. interpretations "the composer wanted to achieve a certain mood" are heading nowhere often. Speaking of music the intention and motivation of the composer and the outcome are things to be seperated when discussing. But with quotes: it is not a quote when it is not deliberately used as a quote. Though this is heading to quite deep aesthetic and philosophical terrain. | | | | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2014-8:31 PM | | | By: | SBD(Member) | I'm always quite tickled when I hear the Dies Irae in a film score. A few things: - it's quite hard to miss in Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, as Walker used the first four notes of the melody for the old gang's theme; the scene where Andrea calls Arthur right when the Joker meets him features a rendition of the theme that puts such a knot in your stomach - the version of it in The Shadow is there, albeit very drawn out (it appears in "The Clouded Mind" from 5:06-5:41 cf. the Intrada release) - it also appears in The Black Cauldron ("Second Chase", 3:38-3:46, cf. Intrada) - Home Alone's use is pretty blatant; the scene where the boys spy on Old Man Marley salting his walkway and he looks up at them | | | | | | | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 30, 2014-1:14 AM | | | By: | Mike West(Member) |
- Home Alone's use is pretty blatant; the scene where the boys spy on Old Man Marley salting his walkway and he looks up at them I stand corrected, yes, this is very certainly a deliberate quote, and a more interesting use here because Carol of the Bells features the exact same four notes and appears prominently later, after the Old Man is revealed to not ne threat, when the Old mysterious Man motif which obviously is a Dies Irae allusion does no longer appear. Pretty sure Williams was aware of the intervallic similarities. About many of the other examples I am suspicious, for sure some coincidences in there. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Posted: | Nov 30, 2014-4:27 AM | | | By: | Hank V(Member) | The El Cid and Diane quotes are definite. El Cid, when Sancho kisses the cross on the sword and dies. Although the Tadlow rerecording seems to have a variation, the soundtrack has a definite Dies Irae quote. Diane is similar to Young Bess for the death of the king. Both are beautifully done by Rózsa. Also John Fitzpatrick wrote on The Rozsa Forum some time ago in a discussion about 'So Proudly We Hail' "Rozsa used the Dies Irae tune for a death scene here long before his three citations in historical stories -- and long before it became a Hollywood cliche. It occurs as a violin solo following the death of one of the nurses. Possibly the first instance in a Hollywood movie? | | | | | | | | | | | | General Discussion:Dies Irae: Gosh, I like this tune! 284 Examples | | First Post |
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